Photo by Steve Rhodes
What’s proper etiquette when you take pictures of people on Muni?
Today rider Julia writes with a question concerning being photographed on Muni. She says:
I was waiting for the M at Forest Hill station on my way home. As the train pulled up to the stop, there was a seated guy who saw me and started staring at me. He was blatantly staring basically the whole time as I go on the train, found somewhere to stand, & put my bag down. I made occasional eye contact with him, which was the only time where he stopped staring. As the train entered West Portal station, he pulled out a DSLR, pointed it at me, and took four or five pictures of me. I had headphones so I guess he thought I couldn’t hear? But I was listening to Iron & Wine, so I could. Not cool, bro!
Time and time again I’ve been told that one of the most enjoyable aspects of reading Muni Diaries is stellar Muni pictures from photographers all around San Francisco. We rely a lot on people like the talented group at CaliberSF and the photographers in our Muni Flickr pool (eviloars, captin_nod, and Brian Brooks, to name just a few of the excellent folks we’ve found).
So dear photogs, what’s a good way of capturing a picture without being rude and weird?
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National Geographic’s Photography Tips page discusses this in the travel photography section and about taking portraits of people when you travel.
http://traveler.nationalgeographic.com/photo-tips
The most common sense one about photographing people directly is this one:
• Keep your camera discreet, always ask permission, and photograph people unposed, ideally involved in a typical setting.
That’s if you want a direct shot of them. A current article about taking photographs in places like Syria describes another approach: http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/photography/photo-tips/syria-photography-tips-kashi/
“When photographing people it’s important to make yourself small and unnoticed if at all possible, unless you are making portraits. ”
I would say, though, that if you don’t want to seem rude you should ask if it’s ok if you take pictures of someone directly. On the other hand, if you’re just taking general shots of the train and people are on it then legally you have no obligation to anyone to ask their permission because MUNI is (I do believe, and I’m sure I’ll get corrected if I am wrong) considered a public place. So, if you’re out and about and someone takes pictures and you don’t want them taken you can (1) ask them politely to stop, (2)yell at them impolitely “NO PICTURES!” or (3) get off the line and wait for the next stop (if they get off with you and keep photographing you, then you’ve got different problem I think). I’ve had someone do (2) to me while just photographing general things on the train. I was combative about it, which in retrospect was unnecessary and rude on my part even if I was in the right (and I wasn’t photographing any particular person) and I wouldn’t do it again, I would just stop, get off at the next stop… and then bastardly photograph them through the window as the door closed. ;) (Nah, I wouldn’t do that, but I’ve seen one too many revenge movies for my mind not to go there.)
I would say that common sense says that if you’re on the train and someone is taking pictures that your choices are limited. Same if you’re the person taking the photographs. You may have the legal high ground but that doesn’t mean you should be a snarky jerk about it.
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eugenia Reply:
May 20th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
I believe you are right about the bus being a public space, so I think this is more of an issue of etiquette and being decent and polite, rather than what’s required. From my reporter days I can understand why sometimes you don’t ask for permission when you don’t legally need to, because a lot of times the moment is lost and you don’t have the news any more. But for other purposes I agree that it is better to be nice and not a snarky jerk.
My Captcha for this comment, unfortunately, is not illuminating in any sort of way :)
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Diana Reply:
September 19th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Me and my child have been photographed on MUNI several times through the years and each time it has felt like a violation, even if the photograph snapped a flattering shot of me reading to her or us on our way to a fete.
Legally is is ok to snap photos of anyone in common spaces but because we are all in this together, why not have an understood etiquette about taking photos of strangers? How about a little “may I take a photo…” beforehand?
Diana
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I think it all depends on what you are after. Photos of the vehicles are easy – that’s why I prefer these shots.
Of people, it’s not so clear-cut. The approach I take is _not_ to be sneaky – I’ll make it pretty clear that I’ve got a camera in hand, make eye-contact with the subject and smile. If you’re lucky (and you’ll be surprised how often this happens), your subject will not to let you know it’s OK and there’s your shot. If you’re not sure if they’re OK with it, err on the side of being cautious put the camera away.
captcha: lorentz settlement (some sort of compromise that gets reached when a Muni bus approaches the speed of light?)
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Bhautik (aka captin_nod) Reply:
May 20th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
[My apologies for the atrocious grammar in this post]
Also echoing what smallerdemon said – just because you legally can doesn’t mean you should – choose carefully when you’re actually _on_ the bus.
captcha: effect aplenty (it’s true!)
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I remember the first time I saw Walker Evans’ subway photos. They were brilliant! (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4156233) and I wondered, how the hell did he get those?!
Come to find out he had a hidden camera on him and that’s why he was able to capture such revealing and candid portraits. There is a thrill in taking a surreptitious photo, and I’ll admit to taking several such shots on Muni. Normally I have my camera at my waist, or sitting in my lap. I may be looking out the window, or looking away from my intended subject, and hope that my camera is positioned properly. And sometimes that “Walker Evans Technique” yields amazing results.
However, if I had made eye contact with someone as in the story above, I would ask permission to take a photo. There’s really no reason not to ask if the person is already aware of your intent–that’s just common courtesy.
captcha: mascots Then
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I wouldn’t have been so upset by it, I think, if he had made some move to indicate asking my permission, or if he had done it more subtly than just pointing & clicking.
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CzB Reply:
May 21st, 2010 at 8:38 am
Problem is, if you go up to someone on Muni and ask them “Hey, do you mind if I take your picture?” it’s more likely to creep them out. There’s already enough weirdos on Muni.
If someone asked me if they could take my picture, I’d be like “Why?”. He’d probably say, “So I can post it on the internet…”
Better to beg for forgiveness than to ask permission.
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Simply ask… Tell them its for a college project regarding MUNI and the everyday citizens that take it, but how extraordinary they really are.
Thats my excuse, and it works almost ALMOST every time.
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i took a pic of a tagger while he was ‘in the act’ and he got really pissed and aggro about it. closest i’ve been to getting into a fight with a stranger, well, pretty much ever.
my favorite is trying to film people off their meds though and usually they don’t notice or care. like this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev38PL_mQfw
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Today a guy (detailed description provided to any ladies who want to share stories) video’d me on his iPhone. It felt very, very creepy. I changed seats as soon as I realized what was happening. He knew I was uncomfortable and offered no apology.
His girlfriend called and he talked about dinner plans with her in a British accent.
I wonder what he does with the vids of us ladies sitting on the bus? I wonder how his girlfriend would like it if she knew he was perving out on muni?
I got an excellent description of him, (left arm) tattoos, body adornments and all.
He should control his non-consensual photography habit from now on. I will come up with a clever way to deal with him should we meet again.
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Oh – and back to the stranger snapping flattering photos wouldn’t it be nice to have a copy of a nice photo sent to you? Its always nice to offer “may I take your photo and I’ll send you one too?”
Can you say “Building community the easy way?”
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