Ed. note: While the discussion continues on the post we got from a Muni operator’s wife, we received a first-hand account from Will, a Muni operator, who lays forth his ideas about MTA and describes what it’s like to drive for Muni:
There are a lot of misconceptions out there about Muni Drivers. First, operators are not unwilling to make sacrifices when it is appropriate to do so. However, the MTA’s proposal to freeze scheduled wage increases for an additional 12 months (we are currently under an 18-month wage freeze that expires in July of this year) came at a time when city officials were publicly questioning whether the MTA is misappropriating money budgeted for Muni service. We would like to know why the MTA gives $67 million of the Muni operating budget to other City Departments.
As for the Charter pay survey that determines our wage increases: Muni operators are worth every penny! We are the most uniquely trained and highly qualified transit operators anywhere in the world. Where else can you find antique cable cars, high speed light rail vehicles, articulated electric and diesel coaches as well as antique street cars all being operated by the same group of people?
Also, try to imagine the frenzy of activity (700,000 riders per day, 21,000,000 per month) in and around transit vehicles every day. Operators successfully manage interactions of all kinds with riders while navigating the chaos on city streets, (like patting your head and rubbing your stomach and walking on a tight rope 100 feet up). This is not a complaint but an attempt to describe the experience.
As for work rules: Operators are disciplined and fired for excessive abscences… disciplined and fired for too many passenger complaints… disciplined and fired for unsafe driving. Contrary to popular belief the MTA is very tough on drivers (many would say excessivly so). Because of the current economic conditions many San Francisco residents are unemployed and angry. This is understandable. However, it is no reason to blindly bash Muni operators for trying to hold the line against the anti-union opportunists trying to take advantage of the situation.
Unfortunately the track record that Muni has lately would put a lot of what this gentlemen is saying, to bed. I would have to say that once again the ego’s of our muni operators is way over the line. I will say this too, there are a lot of people out there that could probably do so much better then most of the muni operators we currently have, and for a lot less pay. As far as muni’s disciplinary process, I do not think the operator has watched the news much for the past couple of years. There have been countless reports of muni operators swearing at people, closing the doors on riders, and after countless times, they are still driving.
Once again I will say, we have a muni system with a bunch of arrogant, self-entiltled, pompous operators who think they have it worse then anyone else, and nobody could have a tougher job then them. To bad it has to go this way, I am hoping for the change in the city charter. Muni operators with never humble themselves to where they should be.
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I think we have a Muni system with a bunch of arrogant, self-entitled pompous riders who huff, puff and blog about how badly Muni sucks every time the N is three minutes late. It’s public transit, it’s not perfect and will never be. And yet the blame for the system’s shortcomings is laid on the systems’ operators, and not its managers, not its board, not the $60 million in state funding lost annually? Explain that.
It’s one thing to be a consumer advocate, it’s another thing entirely to be a union-busting turd. I bet you’re a shitty tipper, too.
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There’s a reason that a company like First Transit or Veolia can shave 20% or more off of publicly run bus operations. Union drivers are grossly overpaid. I don’t begrudge them their union or their right to refuse to bargain when they don’t have to – they’re looking out for their own interests as they have a right to do. But they are empirically overpaid. And MUNI’s on-time performance is one of the worst in the state. And our average bus speed? Really?
However, I firmly believe we have the MUNI system we deserve, if not the MUNI system we need. The fault lies with the Mayor and Supes for not holding MUNI’s more accountable for its expenditure of tax dollars. And after them, it’s our fault for not holding our elected officials more accountable. The Charter-mandated wages are only a symptom of this city’s larger problems. What’s scary to think is that MUNI is actually one of the better run city agencies. We just don’t have to deal with so many of the others on a regular basis.
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Overpaid? I’m a Muni operator, and the only reason I was able to afford to buy a condo in San Francisco (a very modest two bedroom in a remote and somewhat dangerous neighborhood) is because my wife makes as much money as I do, and we don’t have kids. The reason we’re among the top-paid transit operators in the country is because this is one of the most expensive places to live in the country.
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Are you kidding me. I outlined a whole series of problems in my post below – but one thing I’m not complaining about is the N being 3 minutes late. I would love it if that was the problem.
I’m thinking you either don’t use MUNI or work for them. Maybe both.
Also, maybe you’re never used a transit system that works?
btw. I always tip %20 (sometimes after tax, sometimes before).
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Sorry bud, I don’t have a stake in the company. Trust me, I relied on Muni to get everywhere for quite some time, and have seen quite a bit. And don’t share your views.
Most of what you cited was hearsay, not facts. Sorry.
Do tell: what is a city with a system that “works”? Please say San Jose.
Good on you for supporting the service industry though.
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Coming up with transit systems that work better then MUNI is easy.
I’ve lived in New York City. In NYC it’s a very rare day that the system changes your commute from 25 minutes to and hour and a half. In the last six months that’s happened to me multiple times here. I’ve had very few bad experience in Boston (but never actually lived there). I think your question should be turned around: What major city has worse public transportation then San Francisco?
I’ve lived in several cities in Germany (Bonn, Cologne, Berlin) all have better transit stytem. Although I don’t know the numbers I would say they range from smaller to bigger then MUNI. London (more expensive) and Paris (when they’re not striking) have better public transit. I could go on but the piont is this: there are systems that work better then what we have. They are not hard to find.
What is surprising to me is your acceptance of mediocrity – the implicit belief that the system can’t be better. I suspect it’s because you’ve never known better. But more importantly, what purpose does supporting mediocrity serve? Unless your a MUNI employee you get no benefit from the current work rules, and the demonstrably hurt your commute on MUNI, so why would you support them?
My facts might be hearsay to you (what would constitute actual facts in this case?) but seem to be what every rider I’ve ever spoken to experiences (more heresay, I know!). At the end of the day, MUNI failing or succeeding will be based on the perception of it’s riders and the citizens of San Francisco, those are the only facts that will matter – and they will decide what kind of funding MUNI will or won’t receive.
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@c bob — equivocating concerns/complaints about the system to union-busting is really out of line. I think a lot of us support unions, in principle, just not when they’ve come to have so much power that their presence is wrecking the system that employs them. If they knew what was best for them and took some pride in their work, they would want to create an indispensable transit system that the San Francisco public relied on.
All that being said, you are right that the buck stops with the board of supervisors and the public who votes them into office. We supposedly have some kind of climate change goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent of 1990 levels by 2012. How, pray tell, can this city ever meet that goal with such a lousy public transit system? Cars make up the majority of greenhouse gas emissions in the Bay Area.
This may seem off topic, but I really think sustainability is linked to people getting out of their cars and onto public transit. But every day, MUNI does one more self-destructive thing that has the adamant supporters of public transit, like me, thinking about buying a car.
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I think European countries are bad comparisons: too many variables different. Tax base, car ownership, cost of petroleum and infrastructure. Also: you think unions are too strong here? Are you sure you lived in Europe?
I did live in Boston for five years and found that system to be more expensive and less reliable, especially when transfers were involved (and by comparison, folks here complaining about ‘rude drivers’ are patently hilarious). You can’t pick up a cell phone and find out when your bus is coming, either. And when I left in 2005, a “fastpass” equivalent cost $75. I was amazed when I got here: everything was so damn cheap!
You cite New York. Transit there is more expensive: a subway card costs $90. According to a 2005 article (http://www.nysun.com/new-york/subway-union-to-meet-today-amid-talk-of-a-key/24958/) starting salary for a subway conductor there is $50k, bus driver about $63k. Doesn’t sound too different, but let me remind you New York is bigger, flatter, and has a comprehensive subway system the likes of which not seen anywhere else in the United States, save maybe DC or Chicago, neither of which have the rugged terrain San Francisco has.
Lastly, all I am hearing on this board is “it’s the drivers’ fault, if they didn’t make so much money or act so damn rude everything would be ok.” That’s classic shortsightedness that ignores anything resembling a big picture. I’m not supporting mediocrity, I am pragmatic and recognize that a public transit network will never be perfect, but it is preferable to relying on a car. That’s the tradeoff, and if you don’t like it, I hear homes in Stockton are available.
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@c bob I don’t have a problem with unions. I’m not sure why you say that. Some of the benefits of strong unions (for people not in the union) can be high work standards, pride and improved training. I’m not seeing that with MUNI. I have seen that elsewhere.
I think you are implicitly agreeing with me though that transit can be better (and is better) elsewhere. You are for some reason drawing (what I would say are arbitrary) lines and exlcuding them from discussion. Why can’t we be as good as other cities wherever they are? Is this really too much for the citizens of San Francisco to hope for?
But you are right, New York City has a much more complicated and comprehensive transit system…. and yet it manages to work better. How does that support your argument? Perhaps most importantly the people of NYC are more satisfied with their transportation the the people of San Francisco. Everything else is irrelevant.
I don’t see what hills have to do with it particularly as many of the biggest problems I’ve experienced are in the tunnels. Are you saying all the tunnel problems with the light rail are from the hills?
I feel like there is some misdirection on the salary issue. It’s not the high base salaries causing problems (and like you’re pointing out the base salary isn’t _that_ high). It the strange work rules, overtime rules, scheduling rules, unannounced absences etc. that drive up costs and degrade service that are the problem.
The claims that I should take a cab or move to Stockton if I think MUNI could be doing a better job are ridiculous. I currently don’t own a car (have never owned a car!) and would prefer to keep it that way. Living in the city is about quality of life, fun activities, better neighborhoods and the health of the planet. If someone like myself is considering a car in San Francisco MUNI is in real trouble in the long run.
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Damn guys. It’s really not as incredibly difficult as you guys are making it. Look, I ain’t got no problem paying u operators what you get right now because I know the public is a big as$hole . What I do have a problem is that you guys aren’t living up to what you’re getting paid. I know, most drivers are doing their job right. However, there are some lazy as$ drivers who don’t do their job right. They should be fired. Oh and one more thing, operators don’t get fired that easily unless the media butts their head in. Otherwise, the union will protect you till the very last minute. So don’t think for one second that operators are booted out easily. For the pay you guys are getting, I expect better performance. I also agree that the management sux as$. You DON’T really need to spend millions of dollars on the TEP project when your customers are going to tell you the exact same thing.
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I’m sitting here reading this and I had to chime in. I drive in Orange County, the cost of living is pretty close to San Francisco. Some people actually don’t understand what we go through as Coach Operators. Most people just think it’s easy to drive a 40-60 ft bus. We don’t make anything close to what Muni Operators make.
I do agree with you, there are a lot of drivers out there who do need to retire or get fired. they are the ones who make it bad for guys like me. I only wish I could have stayed in the Bay Area and not have move to SC so I can make what they do. I also see people on here talking about sub-contracting out work to Veolia or First Transit. Let’s be real we are much better equipped and trained than they are.
This is one reason we are worth the pay !!!! My company has brought in Veolia and MV to operate some of our routes. I can tell you it’s been crazy. These drivers keep getting into accidents and tearing up equipment. I understand your point that you feel a better service should be provided to you as a taxpayer and customer. I just think you have to really weed out the bad seeds.
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Will makes two misleading arguments for Muni operator pay:
1) “We are the most uniquely trained and highly qualified transit operators anywhere in the world. Where else can you find antique cable cars, high speed light rail vehicles, articulated electric and diesel coaches as well as antique street cars all being operated by the same group of people?”
While Muni does have a diverse fleet, not every operator is trained to drive every vehicle. Even those who are trained and qualified for many types of vehicles don’t jump from a bus to a train to a cable car during a single shift. Will is saying that bus drivers be paid more just because Muni has cable cars and streetcars, even if that bus driver isn’t qualified to operate them.
2) “Also, try to imagine the frenzy of activity (700,000 riders per day, 21,000,000 per month) in and around transit vehicles every day.”
No driver has to deal with that many riders though. Each operator only sees a subset of the total ridership which are riding their line. Some drivers of the low ridership community service routes have fewer riders to interact with than drivers of higher ridership lines in other cities who are not guaranteed the second highest pay in the country.
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1) I did’nt say every Operator is trained to drive every vehicle. I said: “WE” are the most uniquely trained and highly qualified transit operators anywhere in the world”, meaning collectively… our workforce altogether!
In fact, every Muni Operator is certified by the City under the same civil service classification: 9163 transit operator. All operators get the same basic training (which itself is unique to San Francisco) and eventually accumulate the seniority, training and expertise to work at any, or all of the various divisions.
2) I did’nt say that anyone jumps from a bus to a train to a cable car during a single shift. That’s dumb.
3) I did not imply that “bus drivers be paid more just because Muni has cable cars and streetcars”, etc. Those are your words. All Muni Operators do the same essential work: Public Transportation. And they ARE worth every penny!
4) I said: “Also, try to imagine the frenzy of activity (700,000 riders per day, 21,000,000 per month) in and around TRANSIT VEHICLES every day.” I did’nt say that each Operator was dealing with the totality of riders each day. That’s dumb too.
Operating a distinctly unique collection of transit vehicles Muni Operators collectively accomplish the daily work of transporting Muni riders. Therefore, “WE”, because we are a unified workforce, have a system wide view of everyday Muni happenings that is informed by direct experience.
Unfortunately, a small segment of the riding public seems to have a big appetite for the gossip and misinformation being promoted by Muni information fabricators.
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“…high speed light rail vehicles…”
Awesome! When do we get those?
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I was just wondering that myself. We have light rail sure, but high speed? Has he ever taken the N-Judah down to ocean beach? It takes like 45 minutes to go 5 miles.
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It’s really all of the stops, not the speed of the trains that makes it sucha long trip.
You can only go so fast if you have to stop every 3 blocks.
It really isn’t that bad though. Grab a book and an ipod….
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Huh. I use MUNI to _get_ places, not to fill time.
If it’s slow because of all the stops it’s not “high speed”. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
I stand by my original comment.
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Technically, it’s 45 minutes to go 7 miles.
And I’m not saying to take MUNI to fill time, but if you’re too cheap to take a cab and too lazy to bike, you might as well fill your time when you’re on it. If you have a smart phone, you could even log on to an internet message board and troll away!
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Again I’m confused by this comment. The general attitude seems to be – if you don’t like the service use another form of transportation. This attitude will do nothing to improve MUNI – and if all the people that have problems with MUNI did this there would be no rider left on the system (and no reason to continue funding it). So if you like MUNI, you should be advocating policies that make MUNI even more attractive to rider not less so. The more riders there are, the more service they’ll be, the more conveniently you’ll be able to get around.
Telling people that the options are poor MUNI service, biking or paying for a taxi is just dumb. It isn’t even in your self interest.
Not that it matters one way or the other but I do bike quite a bit to run errands and commute around the city. I have no interest in paying cab fares (it’s true, i’m too cheap!) but I take MUNI as well and have an interest in a better (faster, more convenient, cheap) system.
I don’t understand arguing for the status quo.
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I have plenty of problems with MUNI and by no means back them up on MOST of what they do, but a complaint about it taking too long to get to the beach deserves the response I gave you.
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Huh? So you think averaging 9 miles per hour for light rail is good? I’m totally not getting your response or what your point is.
Maybe you misunderstood “the beach”. One doesn’t have to be going to the beach to be taking MUNI through the Sunset.
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“First, operators are not unwilling to make sacrifices when it is appropriate to do so. However, the MTA’s proposal to freeze scheduled wage increases for an additional 12 months (we are currently under an 18-month wage freeze that expires in July of this year) came at a time when city officials were publicly questioning whether the MTA is misappropriating money budgeted for Muni service. ”
—Veteran Drivers were really the only ones complaining about this since OVER 500 drivers didnt vote. If you ask the ones getting laid off how they voted they were looking into the future – less medical , a raise, and pay retirement for 1 yr.
“Charter pay survey that determines our wage increases: Muni operators are worth every penny!”
—-this should have read SOME MUNI operators are worth every penny.
@AnthonyV “I will say this too, there are a lot of people out there that could probably do so much better then most of the muni operators we currently have, and for a lot less pay.”
—–Ya alot of people WANT this job but it doesn’t mean they can do the job right. The new MUNI training program has a wash out rate of 25-35% and thats before the DMV test. This also includes the 6-point setup that can wash you out at any point in the 45 day program. And after you pass that you have the 6 month probation where you basically have no union representation.
But i do agree with your comment that “Once again I will say, we have a muni system with a bunch of arrogant, self-entiltled, pompous operators who think they have it worse then anyone else, and nobody could have a tougher job then them.”
@Jamison “Some drivers of the low ridership community service routes have fewer riders to interact with than drivers of higher ridership lines in other cities who are not guaranteed the second highest pay in the country.”
—-The only other drivers in the general vicinity is AC Transit (Daily – 236,000 /Annual – 69 million) Even on AC’s worst commute day, MUNI still has way more ridership. This would be like comparing VTA to MUNI which 3 yrs ago had a top scale for drivers of 27.61 and has a ridership NOWHERE near MUNI’s or AC Transit’s.
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There are good drivers, and there are bad drivers, there is no doubt.
It would be nice if the good drivers would advocate for the passengers with their peers, rather than trying to pass the blame elsewhere. Perhaps once the poor image of MUNI drivers are gone, because of the efforts of the MUNI drivers themselves, they’ll find a lot more support amongst the public.
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There are so many problems with MUNI that’s it’s impossible to make a complete accounting. Here’s a quick list of things that are unaddressed in the operators email – just off the top of my head:
- What about the %17 daily unexplained absense rate? Do you get fired for that – apparently not. Can you think of another job where this would be true?
- How about the fact that my commute from Church & Market to Caltrain takes between 20 minutes and 1.5 hours depending on the day. How am I supposed to plan for that?
- What about the fact that 3 M lines get released from embarcadero durring rush hour a minute a part and then there’s a 19 minute gap? Who makes those decisions and why are they still in charge?
- MUNI frequently cites “heavy traffic” in the tunnel to explain (sometimes long) delays. Yet standing on the embarcadero station you see operators pulling up, chatting and strolling (= walking very very slowly) up and down the platform with no apparent hurry to get the train out of the station so the next can pull in. Where is the concern for the riders?
- The next bus signs don’t seem to work at all. The sign will say 5 minutes for the N at the Caltrain station but then one pulls up and leaves. Why can’t these be fixed?
- Is it just me or is MUNI’s accident rate ridiculously high? I’m hoping some local media organization does some FOI requests to find out how many accidents MUNI’s super qualified drivers have and how it compares to other systems of a similar size.
I moved to San Francisco with the goal of living without a car but problems with MUNI – most importantly irregular service – is making me realize that this is not really possible – even though I live in what is arguably the most central neighborhood for transportation.
I think the fundamental problem is that MUNI views itself as a monopoly – after all – there are no other public transportation options. In fact they should be viewing themselves as in competition with the automobile – they need to be faster, better, more comfortable and cheaper then the automobile. Only then can they claim to be a success, anything short of that should be considered failure (and no bonuses!).
It’s true that Money has been taken (unjustly) from MUNI’s budget in recent years but the problems with MUNI and the operators existed before the funding problems and will continue to exist even if all funds are magically restored. We need to fix things now while the spotlight is on shining bright.
Boris
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I really love your comment. It’s not emotional. It is very level headed. Carefully thought out and worded.
Now… if someone would answer your questions!
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Boris, a lot of that can be answered by the contract with the TWU.
1.) In looking at the MTA’s own reports, I think the absenteeism rate is closer to 20% (33% in some divisions). If you break it down by type of absenteeism, you can start to identify the problem areas. For instance, sick days are likely not something you’d get fired for at other jobs. The terms under which drivers can simply not show up to work without repercussion are outlined in the contract. Some of them seem pretty generous to me, but as it was explained to me, they were thrown in to make the no-strike clause seem more reasonable. Time to revisit the no-strike clause? Maybe.
2.) You’re not. If the MTA would get off its duff and properly implement signal priority at 4th & King, the train would make much more sense. 4th & King is a great example of why the subway to nowhere will never, ever work. As-is, why aren’t you taking any of the buses down 4th St?
3.) Trains are typically not assigned routes at Embarcadero in a dynamic manner. Sometimes they’ll shorten a run (ugh), but that’s about it. My guess is that they don’t reassign things because as it’s spelled out in section 14.3, drivers get a $2/h premium for being reassigned, and are still free to refuse reassignment. In some (very limited) cases the premium is only $1/hr.
4.) MUNI used to make/break trains at West Portal. One of the big problems with this was finding available operators. I doubt there’s a big sense of urgency (as you’ve observed) or a sense of the ripple effects that small delays at Embarcadero can cause. That the train control software will only allow one train to board passengers at a time on a platform (thus wasting the huge platforms at Embarcadero) is really just adding insult to injury.
5.) That’s a good question for Michael Smith of NextBus. My guess is that the GPS setup will take while to figure out where the train is if it’s been turned off. You’ll see similar problems at pretty much any terminus.
6.) This has been covered by all sorts of local media. Dig through the Chron, Examiner, SF Weekly, and SFBG archives a bit. For SFMTA only stats take a gander at the Service Standards Report available on sfmta.com
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The questions were meant rhetorically since it’s clear to anyone who uses MUNI the problem is with their work rules/attitude/ethics/contract. The examples were just meant to draw that out.
But it’s still good to know the inane details. Thanks!
With regards to (2) the reason I don’t switch to the bus is that it seems to increase my chance of failure – if the train’s not running late, then the bus or vice versa. Anytime you have to make a transfer with MUNI you run the risk of waiting for 20 minutes b/c three buses just passed. I might reconsider this as I only tried a couple of times (missing my train) before i decided to stay on the train. Maybe I was just unlucky.
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The best way to Caltrain IMHO, is the 47 at Van Ness. The traffic on 4th screws up the 30/45 all the time – usually it’s faster to walk.
Of course, the real best way to Caltrain is to ride a bike. 15 minutes from 20th and Eureak to 4th and King, give or take 90 seconds.
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Agree about the bike being fastest. There are just some days biking doesn’t work out for me.
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The only terms under which an Operator can take off without repercussions are 1) sick days. 2) vacation days. 3) floating holidays. 4) birthday’s. All absences (except birthdays which are automatically scheduled) must be arranged in advance. Absences caused because of illnesses must be requested an hour before the scheduled shift is to start or there will be repercussions. While reading your posts I started thinking about what Mark Twain once said. “This man knows alot, but most of what he knows, ain’t true”.
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Your list is cute.
The high rate of MUNI driver absences has been documented numerous times in local media (I put some references down at the bottom of the post. It’s funny, but even the stated goals that the agency can’t meet are ridiculously high and it’s very telling that you as a driver don’t even see the problem. It’s the new normal!). I would think the regular stream of stories in the local media would be a point of conversation among MUNI operators and you would be aware of them. Citing the contract for allowed absenses doesn’t explain what’s actually happening. It’s just more misdirection – even if it does end with a Mark Twain quote.
If there were serious repercussions MUNI would be eliminating something like %5 of it’s workforce a month (given that %15 are out on any given day ). The fact that these high rates persist is proof enough that there aren’t serious consequences.
It actually doesn’t even matter if they’re “explained” or not as far as the problem goes. Either their “explained” (and then one can only conclude that they’re probably lying since no other profession has such rates) or not (in which case they still have a problem).
P.S. Birthdays! Are you kidding me? What is this, kindergarten?
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Absence-rate-still-misses-Muni-goal-87192652.html
http://sf.streetsblog.org/2010/02/25/spur-director-muni-drivers-deserve-good-pay-but-work-rules-must-change/
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Reading your reply I started thinking about what the great blues guitarist Elvin Bishop once said: “I know it for a fact, cause I read it in the paper”. I recommend that you should not believe everything you read in the paper. Especially stories about Muni.
Consider this: Mayor Newsom, Sean Elsbernd, Gabriel Metcalf of Spur, Nathaniel Ford of the SFMTA and the publishers of the Examiner and Chronicle, first and foremost, work for the benefit of the corporate business community, (San Francisco Chamber of Commerce), not Muni riders.
Corporate leaders and their advocates want to downsize Muni, suppress labor unions and gradually shift more and more of the Muni’s operating costs onto the public. When Nathaniel Ford says he wants to make Muni leaner and more efficient, what he really means is that the team he works for has a plan to provide Muni riders less for more.
In fact, the plan was set in motion with the MTA’s original promise to provide 85% on time service for Muni riders. Though it was an impossible goal based on an inherently unrealistic and unachievable schedule, (all they ever had to do was publish a new schedule!), the bluff has served the SFMTA well.
Instead of the old Muni Railway we now have a pseudo corporation with an immense yet ill-defined budget of $768 million, a CEO and board of highly paid executive directors, (all transit industry insiders who by MTA design have independent powers and are shielded from public input), and still no on time service. Oh yeah, the drivers. Right!
Theres a reason why the San Francisco Examiner is used more for lining cat boxes and garbage cans than for reading. I think you should spend more time investigating the SFMTA than you do promoting fabricated statistics about Muni Operators.
Kindergarten? Paid birthdays are common. Tell your employer!
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The media’s use of the term “unexplained” absences makes it sound as if the operators are just not showing up for their shifts. An “unexplained absence” is calling in sick for work. Any city job will provide you with 13 sick days. I’m not sure if MUNI operators use more of those sick days than other agencies do, but it sorta makes sense that if you drive a bus everyday that is full of people, you might become sick more often. I don’t know. MUNI employees definitely seem to have a pretty good compensation package going, but considering SF is one of the most expensive places to live in the country, I don’t think they are being overpaid. Also, having ridden the 14 Mission for the past ten years, I really feel for some of the drivers. Not an easy job. Maybe room for some concessions, but like most budget issues I imagine the problem is more administrative/budgeting than the employees. Although, the few problem drivers you see on the news are often ridiculous, and should be let go so they stop tainting perception of all the others.
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1reader, you’ve missed the point. Each Muni operator does not interact with each of those 700,000 riders per day personally, just as each AC Transit operator doesn’t personally see all 236,000 of their riders either. NYC, DC, Chicago, and Boston all have higher ridership than Muni, and if you wanted to tie individual salaries to overall ridership than Muni drivers should be dropped down from second-highest to fifth-highest accordingly.
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I, too, count myself as an angry MUNI rider and I am wholeheartedly in favor of increased funding for public transit. Just not to a system that regularly abuses its riders through all the ways Boris mentioned above.
I have ridden transportation systems around the world, and I see MUNI as the worst run, most frustrating service out there. Although I have met some nice operators, all too often I run into situations where drivers act completely unprofessional, as if they’ve had no public relations training. I’m talking about shutting the door on people while they’re in the stairwell, stopping the bus and refusing to drive further because of some spat with a rider, refusal to give badge numbers so a rider can file a complaint. It doesn’t surprise me at all that the accident rate is so high. I really think this city needs a “rider’s union” or some kind of association of commuters and other riders who can counter the power of the driver’s union and advocate for sensible transit policies that benefit the public. There is no reason why San Francisco can’t have the best transit agency in the country.
Oh and one other thing has been really bugging me. This whole business about drivers allowed overtime without having to clock 40 hours a week. So, as I understand it, you can just not show up for work and then come in another day on OT hours? This seems like a scam to me. I’d love for you, Mr. MUNI operator, to explain that one.
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I’ve had one of the worst jobs in the world. Working in a bank on the border line of the rich and the poor districts. I have dealt with insane verbal abuse from Rich people who think they own me to poor ( bums, cracked out pimps and hoes ) who would yell at me in their crazy drugged out haze.
This is what customer service is and half the time it is super insane. Yes I can sympathize with the Muni Drivers. I dont even pay that much attention to grumpy muni drivers as long as they keep the bus going ( i really hate it when driver /passenger arguments start). The Point is that SO many people have the ” WORST/ HARDEST JOB IN THE WORLD” and funny thing is a lot of people dont get paid what it really costs for the grueling work they do.
So I am not going to buy this “Muni operators are worth every penny! We are the most uniquely trained and highly qualified transit operators anywhere in the world.” Because every one is worth every penny or Unique ( not every one is a special snowflake). Im tired of this High Horse.
I bought this more expensive Fass Pass and now I expect my busses to come on a regular basis. You cant take both my money and my time thats BS! SO im sacrificing a little, I want someone to slice their pay check!
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Heather =, at least you have your plexi glass window to protect you from all those “bums, cracked out pimps and hoes” and while you count those 20′s try imagine driving those “bums, cracked out pimps and hoes” who make others uncomfortable, or start yelling at you while you’re trying to safely drive a bus load of people through traffic, pedestrians who break the laws, cyclists who cut you off and fat old men who step out in front of the bus. Not to mention all the other distractions constantly bombarding a driver. Have you ever had to do that while you sit behind your little window and smile to the crazies? No…. you just call for security, they deal with them. Muni operators don’t have this luxury. Meanwhile a driver last year in New York had his throat slit. And recently a 9 san Bruno operator was attacked and taken to the hospital. Muni operators have your safety in mind as well as everyone else on the road. So if it takes up your extra precious time to get you to your “bank job” safely then you should a little more understanding.
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Muni operators are just people with jobs. There are some assholes, some saints, and a whole bunch of average joes who show up and do a decent job. I’ve ridden the system numerous times a day for years, and out of 1000s of boardings, maybe two or three horror stories.
I challenge anyone on this board whining about mean drivers to drive the 38 for a week or two. Can you squeeze an articulated coach down Geary while a bunch of screaming crackheads and holier-than-thou yuppies are distracting you? Well, can you?
That the system has shortcomings is not the operators’ fault. Sure, the work rules need tightening up, but because the economy is in the shitter is no reason to make a good middle-class job — one performed by a majority of people of color — worse.
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c bob, Muni operators are people with lavishly entitled jobs. The union has wrapped these operators in cotton batting and protected them from accountability and any effects from the bad economy. The operators rejected a very reasonable list of concessions and yes, now riders are out for their blood. We’re not whining about mean drivers, we’re outraged by the disconnect between job performance and compensation. Are you saying, c bob, that Muni drivers DESERVE to be the second-highest paid in the country? You obviously consider Muni riders a bunch of whiners. Have you ever been in a jam-packed, filthy 43 bus during the morning commute and watched the driver suddenly stop and leave the bus with no explanation? I have — the the whole group, filled with “holier-than-thou yuppies”, just waited patiently with only a few disbelieving looks until the driver emerged from a coffee shop and started the bus again with no explanation. You refuse to admit that Muni drivers, both the good ones and the poor ones, are so ineptly managed and compensated that it’s a miracle anybody dependent on public transportation can keep a job at all in this city.
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Yuppies ride the Masonic? My, how the Excelsior’s changed!
I know it’s hard to look up facts for one’s self, but here’s a doozy for you. Rank the following from top to bottom for compensation: AC Transit, BART, SamTrans, Muni, Golden Gate Transit. You will find Muni drivers aren’t even the 2nd highest paid in the Bay Area.
I think if your corporate office told you that you deserve the same wage level as folks in Detroit, Kansas City or anyplace else with a much cheaper cost of living — just because you do similar jobs in different places — you would have an aneurysm, and rightly so.
But you did strike upon something solid, maybe you’ll dig it out once you take a deep breath and wipe the froth from your lips. “Ineptly compensated and managed.” Well, which is it? Do they make too much darn money, or are they poorly managed?
Let me ask you something — what’s a reasonable give back from the unions? Tell me that, and then tell me how much of a deficit will still be left (answer: lots). Then tell me with a straight face that it’s all the drivers’ fault. But if you still say drivers make too much money, then you’re saying “fuck bus drivers, they should be strictly lower class.” Check yourself.
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Why can’t they be both “Ineptly compensated” and “Ineptly managed”? I don’t see a problem with that (err, or that is the problem?).
My wages are set nationally and there is no “Bay Area bonus”. That’s true for lots of professions. When the company isn’t doing well b/c of the economy there’s no bonus and no pay raises. Also, if you don’t show up without any warning you can probably expect to be fired.
This is a touchy subject for people but different jobs pay different amounts and everyone thinks they should be upper middle class. That’s not how things actually work in the world. Having never been a MUNI driver it appears that they are overpaid relative to the barriers (training, skills, specialized knowledge) needed to be a MUNI driver. Many jobs (public school teacher comes to mind) are just as hard if not harder, have a larger barrier for entry, and pay less then MUNI. The point is this: the sfmta could recuit competent candidates to be MUNI drivers and pay them less (but fairly!) without any problems. In anycase, it’s not necessarily the salaries that are the problem – but overtime and other work rules as far as costs go.
I’m not out to cut driver salaries per se, what I want is a functioning system. According to an Examiner article (to be trusted?) %80 of MUNI’s total costs are labor. That means you can’t find a solution without working labor cost reductions into the equation.
In the long run MUNI has to figure out how to drive more people to use the system. They need to ask how they can be more convenient. Lot’s of happy rider means they’ll be guaranteed funding. Fewer angry rider means they’ll be struggling for funding. It’s that simple.
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“Why can’t they be both “Ineptly compensated” and “Ineptly managed”? I don’t see a problem with that (err, or that is the problem?).”
Then go after management, if not more so, then at least equally. All I’m hearing is antiworker vitriol, and it makes me really uncomfortable.
I cannot think of a single company that does not pay its workers the “going rate,” from minimum wage on up. There’s a reason why min wage is $10 in SF and $7 in the Midwest. You make more at a Safeway in SF than you would in Modesto. If your company is not fairly compensating you, what’s keeping you there? You are free to leave, are you not?
All this being said, I am for removing Muni salaries and work rules from the City Charter. I’m also for removing firefighter workweeks and police staffing levels from the City Charter. I’m not hearing anyone else calling for sweeping reform, all I’m hearing is “Muni isn’t perfect and it’s all the drivers’ fault.” That’s bullshit, pure and simple.
Lastly, you suggest in the same breath that Muni is not recruiting quality candidates yet could while paying them less. I don’t know where you got your business degree but htat’s some creative — read: “fantasyland” — management techniques that would get you fired in the private sector.
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Bob, why go after management *here*? This was a post about the drivers’ contributions to the problems and solutions. So far I’ve yet to see anyone suggest with a straight face that all of the problems are the fault of the drivers.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: every interested party is part of the problem, and every interested party ought to be part of the solution. If you’ve paid attention to pretty much anything else related to the budget mess (such as the town hall meetings, the stuff written on streetsblog, etc) there’s plenty of vitriol for management.
P.S. To whomever thinks that one ought to take a cab from the beach… yikes. Forty-five minutes to downtown is slow, but bearable. I gave up because one hundred-twenty minutes simply was not bearable, and I was not prepared to take a cab to work every day (nor was I prepared to show up sweaty and stinky after biking to work). As best I can tell, the biggest problems on the street are that the doors on the trains simply don’t work reliably on an incline. Of course, the biggest messes on the L are typically in trying to navigate West Portal and the tunnels themselves.
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@c bob I think you’re purposely misunderstanding my argument regarding salaries (which strictly speaking I take to mean the total compensation, including bonuses, overtime and not showing up for work). The “fantasy land” scenario is that MUNI driver are compensated appropriately.
I think you’re suggesting that to get better workers MUNI would have to give them even more benefits – a kind of elementary econ 101 open market statement. I don’t think the current situation lends itself to that idealized scenario including that the union rules make getting rid of bad employees, rewarding good ones and all the other things that go into a freemarket in employment very difficult.
In this case, in addition to the strange work rules MUNI seems to suffer from a cultural problem. That problem can be fixed independently of the pay issue as the very generous package their receiving (both drivers and management) is clearly not helping. A company with the problems MUNI has wouldn’t last long and I wouldn’t be fired for my suggestions in the private sector.
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@ Thebe…… have you read my post http://www.munidiaries.com/2010/03/01/a-letter-from-the-wife-of-a-muni-operator/
The concessions were unreasonable. Again, it boils down tot he management and their inflated salaries. The city borrowing moneys from Muni that voter gave them. Not for city projects that the Mayor chooses to spend it on. A few months ago the city repaired a 10 foot section of the sidewalk near my home. 10 city trucks showed up and over 15 city employees stood around while 3 men did the work….. WTF? talk about wasted money. Or how about the Mayors big plans to turn parking and cement areas near the freeways into gardens… if the city is over budget why are they more concerned about gardening than you and all the other passengers who have to cram on a packed bus?? I thought the citizens of San Francisco were smarted than that, but it looks like our elected official’s are winning. And 60K a year is below median income especially in San Francisco, but being “the second highest paid” statement sounds better when you’re campaigning a war on the blue collar workers.
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You do realize that the transit agency that is usually #1 or #3 in this equation is VTA in the South Bay. So yes, I believe that Muni operators pay should be close to if not more than the VTA
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My reply was to Thebe
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The mess at Embarcadero is both mgmt AND worker anti-rider behavior. Muni COULD specify the job as LRV work between z and y hours route as directed. If they did that (which Rescue Muni first recommended to them in 1999 or 2000) the premium pay would not be an issue. OTOH the “strolling” which we have all witnessed is like the middle finger reminding riders that the job is to collect a paycheck, actual transit not guarnteed. This is typical–mgmt whines about work rules they agreed to while not bothering to change things not prevented by contract, and workers demonstrate daily contempt for riders.
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If the work contract is holding MUNI up from operating the service properly, then it’s incumbent on the MUNI board and the board of supervisors to renegotiate the contract in a way that benefits riders more.
Writing extremely beneficial work rules for MUNI employees in order to get the union to agree on a no-strike clause seems asinine if the whole system is inoperable to riders. At this point, I say let the drivers go on strike and let’s get back what the service desperately needs. There’s only so much capitulation that the public should take.
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Anyone w/ decent health and five months worth of fast pass money (or a credit card) should step off MUNI. Buy a bike or electric bike for under $400. You can walk, bicycle, or ride an electric bike or scooter and bypass all the waiting and missed transfers, etc.
Does MUNI need fixing? Yes! But it should concentrate on its underground lines and express lines to get people quickly where they need to go. No more stopping every two blocks for the majority of busses. Make it four or six or eight blocks. On its grid of minor lines and dedicated local busses it should operate more like specialized transit vans –concentrating on getting the elderly, the very young, and the disabled as close their destinations as possible.
The rest of us can and should walk a bit further to free up the system of unnecessary stops.
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Biking is really only an option for people who live in certain parts of the city.
An example:
I know that it would be possible for someone who lives in the Richmond of Sunset to bike to the financial district, but biking 12-14 miles a day roundtrip simply isn’t realistic for most people.
Also, not all workplaces have adequate showering/changing facilities. I am guessing that most people wouldnt want to sit in sweaty clothes all day.
There is also the rain factor.
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Richmond OR Sunset. oops
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@Natasha and all, The specifics of job description for LRV drivers could be changed without a contract modification IINM. Furthermore, Muni has had THREE rounds of contracts since the suggestion was made by RM if it had needed to be negotiated.. Point is, therefore, that mgmt has shown NO INTEREST in fixing the issue. In substance abuse we call this “enabling” the abuser. The process should have been “salary neutral” or perhaps even a saving since dynamic resequencing would eliminate bunching in the evening rush which is a major problem. The current insanity is what drives the bogius short turns on the outer end of the lines as drivers are so late they will be getting OT.
All of this is highly irritating to riders and essentially a NO COST area for fixes–it just requires the will to DO SOMETHING USEFUL — in very short supple at SFMTA.
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“Muni operators are worth every penny! We are the most uniquely trained and highly qualified transit operators anywhere in the world. ”
You keep telling yourself that. We’ll vote to kick your lazy, rude ass to the curb.
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Quick reminder to all: Please try to keep your comments on-topic. And to refrain from personal attacks and name-calling. Don’t make us do to this thread what we did to another one yesterday. Keep it civil, please.
Yours in Muni Diaries editing,
Jeff
(CAPTCHA: callous real)
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“Muni operators are worth every penny! We are the most uniquely trained and highly qualified transit operators anywhere in the world. ”
let’s see, you are trained to drive a bus. how is that any different than a teenager learning to drive a car or a truck driver learning how to drive a big rig? Do you go to college for your amazing and unique skills. do you need anything more than a GED and the same basic abilities that anyone with the bare limits of mental abilities have? NOPE.
so please get off that horse. if you are so high trained and skilled certainly you can find a job that is more suited to you and you don’t have to deal with the thousands of people that actually pay for your job.
It’s called customer service. Should a call center person bitch and whine and expect to not have to actually talk to people on the phone when it is there job.
Again even for someone with your unique skill understand that the purpose of the bus is not just you drive an empty but to actually carry people on it and stop to pick them and stop to let off. maybe that was included in your training.
As for being highly qualified, considered the only qualification is having a high school degree and getting a driving licence, I’m thinking that you set that bar pretty darn low for what is qualified.
Then there is the problem of if what you are saying is true, that the bus drivers are highly qualified and have been properly trained, why then do they have higher accident rates, higher absentee rates, higher complaint rate than MOST of the major American transit systems?
I love how you claim to be the best in world. Been to Europe lately, how about even Canadian? Having lived in Canada, Europe and South Asia even the bus drivers in Malaysia and Thailand who have outdated buses are nicer, more efficient and more punctual than MUNI has been in the last ten years and since you probably don’t it the system in Kuala Lumpur as well as in many European cities is larger than your “world class system”. I know muni think it’s find to claim lies as truth but facts speak for themselves.
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Muni drivers are the most VERSATILE and UNIQUELY QUALIFIED transit operators ANYWHERE. NO TRANSIT AGENCY IN THE WORLD POSSESSES THE VARIETY OF EQUIPMENT THAT WE DEAL WITH. This is a fact!
San Francisco is a place with a dense population, heavy traffic, narrow streets and hilly terrain. Despite the wild claims about accident rates (most accidents are minor) Muni Operators safely contend with these conditions everyday.
I think alot of Muni critics would actually be amazed at how many Operators are college graduates.
But a college degree will not guarantee success at Muni. It takes skill, courage and stamina to endure the challenges of this profession. You’ve got to have heart. And you’ve got to be able to look past the relatively few complainers, crazies and threatening people that vent their miseries on Muni and its drivers.
Fortunately for us, the vast majority of our riders are decent, interesting and likable people. And I think most of us enjoy our interactions with them.
Still, there is a small but vocal group of Muni information fabricators out there spewing all kinds of nonsense about Operator pay, work rules, accident rates and the rest. Of course, there is room for improvement. Especially regarding on time performance. But most of what you say is just spiteful and wrong.
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Will, what about Boston’s MBTA or Philly’s SEPTA? Both run street cars, heavy rail, ferry boats, trolley coaches, and diesel buses. Boston runs, what? three? types of LRVs. The MBTA sometimes makes trains with multiple types of LRVs. When’s the last time MUNI did that? Hell, in the case of the MBTA, they’ve got dual mode trolley/diesel buses (not hybrids, but trolley buses with engines to run off-wire).
I’d argue it’s a bit disingenuous to crow about the diversity if drivers typically only operate one or two types of equipment in a given quarter… especially given the lack of training some operators seem to demonstrate. On Thursday afternoon I watched in horror as the driver of the train failed to deal with a broken door. There were plenty of possible solutions (including taking the train out of revenue service to allow all the trains backing up behind it to move), but what did the operator do? Well the operator started by yelling at the passengers (who had not broken the door…), by the time the operator started pleading with the passengers to fix the door(!) I got off the train and simply walked to West Portal. Granted this was less disruptive than the time a driver parked a broken (problems with the steps) train in the middle of the West Portal intersection for a good ten minutes… but not by much.
As for nonsense about work and pay rules… really? In addition to your list, you also get bereavement leave (three days spelled out in Article 10 of your contract… something I’ve yet to see in the private sector). Section 9.7 covers “other paid time off” including things like three paid emergencies not needing prior approval. The version of the contract I’m reading states that it’s good through June 30, 2011.
If your contract is spiteful, I can only hope you’ll work to change it.
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Alex, Boston’s MBTA and Philly’s SEPTA are both regional transit systems which provide service for multiple cities and counties. And both agencies have service areas covering thousands of square miles.
For example, the MBTA serves 175 cities and towns over an area of 3,244 square miles, SEPTA provides service in 8 counties covering 2,202 square miles.
These systems are much larger than Muni’s with a complex variety of modes, (think: BART, Caltrain, Capitol express, Muni, AC and others combined.) and really should’nt even be used for comparison with San Francisco’s Muni.
But just to clarify, TRANSIT OPERATORS for the MBTA and SEPTA primarily drive buses, street cars, electric and diesel coaches and light rail vehicles, (similar to us but without antique street cars or Cable Cars).
Though I could’nt determine the situation with the “heavy rail” vehicles you mentioned, They certainly do not pilot the ferry boats or the locomotive powered commuter trains that are part of the MBTA and SEPTA systems.
At both the MBTA and SEPTA different jobs pay different amounts of money and some operators are represented by different unions with seperate contract agreements.
At Muni, transit operators are a single unified group represented by a single Union with only one contract agreement.
And, just for the record, Muni Operators have been trained on several types of LRV’s over the years, and we also currently have dual mode trolley buses that run off wire.
But lets not split hairs.
Speaking objectively, (I absolutely don’t mean to take anything away from transit Operators who work for other transit agencies, I respect them all), the fact is, Muni Transit Operators ARE, (because of the conditions and diversity of equipment in San Francisco) more versatile and more uniquely trained than any other similarly classified transit Operators.
All I know for sure about your unfortunate expericences on Muni Metro is that an Operator never has the authority to take a disabled vehicle out of service on his own. I think it would be stressful for anyone to find themselves in such a predicament. However, he should have kept his cool!
As for your comments about our work rules and pay: I did forget to mention bereavement pay. The Police and Fire departments also have it. Its a benefit that most of us hope to seldom use during our careers.
Section 9.7 of the contract regarding “other paid time off” states: The operator shall use paid leave (meaning the day off will be paid out of his own bank of accrued sick time, vacation or holiday pay) in cases of a VERIFIABLE EMERGENCY. It also says, an operator with no available paid leave (in cases of a VERIFIABLE EMERGENCY) may be permitted to take the day off WITHOUT PAY.
Emergencies arise without warning and are always unexpected occurences. How could anyone obtain prior approval for such a thing?
The three day stipulation applies to the annual limit on such VERIFIABLE events. And, like the bereavement leave most Muni Operators would rather not need to use emergency leaves and usually don’t.
I don’t like to insult people. But you suggested that I am disingenuous and that I crow about Muni’s Operators abilities. Well, I could say that some of your comments are disingenuous and that you squawk about your frustrations.
That stuff gets us nowhere. Peace!
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Seriously Will? You’re going to split hairs like that? Guess what? MTA drivers do not drive a bunch of different types of equipment in a given period of time (day, pay period, quarter, year).
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I think this issue is quite simple. If the citizens of San Francisco determine that MUNI union employees are over-paid, then we should reduce their pay according. This would of course include everyone. I certainly would vote for a drastic pay cut to these incompetent people. MUNI is a mess because the union has too much power. I used to be a union supporter but no more. MUNI employees are a disgrace to the City…and that includes the infamous fare inspectors.
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N line being 3 minutes late is a problem— why are we dismissing it— it’s just a less annoying problem than N line being 15 minutes late, which is what I had to experience the last two times I took it.
Of course we don’t expect the public transit to be perfect— but to what severity are we going to allow? Has anyone taken the train in London? Inperfect for Londoners is the subway train being 10 seconds late to the station, and the station operator apologizes over the PA to riders.
In the meantime I love it for what it is, but for a metropolitan city San Francisco prides itself to be, we are way, way, way behind with our public transit system compared to others. Stop patting on your shoulder for being second rate. It’s just sad.
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Oh see now you’re being silly. The tube is never on time (National Rail ain’t that grand either). For the duration of my (short) stay I had to check the TfL web site to determine which lines were closed or having problems. The day before I arrived Victoria station was closed because of flooding. When I arrived, it took me about 90 minutes to get from Heathrow to Liverpool St station because of switching problems. First Stansted Express of the day? About 15 minutes late. The reason why this is tolerable is threefold:
The bus system duplicates a fair amount of the underground coverage. The MTA is fighting the idea of overlapping service without thinking about the benefits of having a contingency route.
The stops are so close together it’s easy enough to get off a stop or two ahead of time and walk. SF is a very walkable city, but the Market St stops are typically spaced pretty far apart (and way too close in the outer reaches of the Sunset).
Third, and perhaps most importantly, is that TfL communicates with its riders. The MTA does not. The drivers don’t feel the need to announce short runs ahead of time (if that’s not a big middle finger to the riders from the TWU, I don’t know what is). The management doesn’t feel compelled to inform the riders of outages (like BART and TfL do every day! FFS, Judson True operated a twitter account on behalf of the MTA but couldn’t be assed to tweet about disruptions at all). Nor does anyone see fit to inform folks about service changes. Have you seen the bus shelters on Treasure Island? They’re all signed for the 2-Clement, 3-Jackson, 26-Valencia and the like. WTF? Or how about the “signs” along the 66′s route? They inform riders in many different languages that there will be changes to the 66. Nothing at all indicates what those changes will be, and the old hours and headways are posted above. It’s the culture of contempt from the MTA rank and file, and management that riles me up more than anything.
Anyhow, shit happens. If there were at least headway adherence, three minutes late wouldn’t be much of a problem (even 15 minutes late really). But there’s neither headway nor schedule adherence at the MTA. And, in fact, it’s more like 30 minutes or 60 minutes late. Try catching an outbound L in the evening. They run about once an hour from the subway. Too bad the TWU is fighting the idea of dynamic outbound train assignment tooth and nail.
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I commuted via cable car (powell – bay & taylor line), 1-2 times per week for many years (from 2002 until the fare went to $5). Probably taking ~300 trips in all. I was always amazed by the operators long breaks at each end of the line. By my calculation, perhaps 30 minutes of each hour worked was spent on break! At the same time, the cars ran with nowhere near the frequency specified on the muni map’s timetables (instead running about 50% less frequent, and the operators were unapologetic when asked why the run times didn’t match the map.)
The other day I rode the same line in from Bart at 10:30PM on a Tuesday night, starting at the Powell turnaround. As I stood with tourists for 15 minutes, watching a resting car sit 100 yds from us, I was reminded of the cushy breaktime afforded the cable car operators.
I’d assume that Cable Car Operator is considered a top for a Muni transit operator; one that you must work your way up to. If that’s true, then I’d assume that the breaktime culture is picked up along the way up through the ranks, ie: it’s cultural at Muni.
With respect to riding the bus in SF, I have a few complaints from back then but only one that still makes me shake my head in disgust: the shockingly rude/lazy fat lady driving the 15 who wouldn’t pull her bus over on columbus to let us out, instead making us disembark with a full lane between the bus and the curb – more than once a car decided to pass the bus on the right while the angry lazy idiot bus driver put us in danger.
-We live in NYC now, and feel that the transit operators here have to work harder, put up with more intensity and challenge, and conduct themselves, overall, more courteously and professionally than the Muni drivers, and are themselves a big part of why the transit “machine” in NYC works so well.
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I, Me, My! Try a laxative! Or, try working at Muni as a transit operator. Your calculations and assumptions as a rider are limited by your point of view. Be informed by direct experience. Muni is hiring part-time operators now! Meanwhile, quit whining.
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Quit whining? Last night I watched a driver close the doors on someone at just the right time so as to cause them to fall to the cement. Should I wait until a driver kills someone? Or is it acceptable to wait until someone loses a limb?
Or how about the driver last night who kept everyone waiting at West Portal for 10+ minutes without saying a peep? That’s okay to you?
Or the driver last night who was too busy looking around the cab to pay attention to the road ahead of her as she barreled down Taraval? Remember those horrible, awful cameras that you guys are trying to call a waste of money? Remember how they caught one of the bus drivers doing the same thing and then hitting some parked cars?
Or how about the driver a couple nights ago who wouldn’t let anyone off at the designated stop?
At what point should the culture of contempt for both safety and riders be considered unacceptable by the general public? When it starts hurting service. ‘Cause, we’re already there, drivers have destroyed enough LRVs to ensure that there aren’t enough in service to meet demand.
Perhaps you guys should look for change within to solve the problem as opposed to treating your crisis as one of PR.
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Boy, you really get around Alex! It’s remarkable that you keep finding yourself in these situations with “bad” Muni drivers!
There was a brief article in the Examiner a while back about how passenger complaints against Muni drivers had dropped from something like 950 in one quarter to around 775 in the next.
I don’t believe the overeager driver basher’s at the Examiner intended to compliment the improved score, but more likely meant to draw attention to a statistic that at first glance, still looks pretty bad.
However, consider this: 1) there are three months in a quarter. 2) Muni drivers transport 700,000 riders per day. 3) 90 days x 700,000 riders = 63,000,000 riders transported in one quarter. Wow! SIXTY THREE MILLION riders transported in a three month period with only 775 passenger complaints!
Alex, get off your low jackass and give Muni drivers the credit they deserve!
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Yeah, if only we could just ignore the blatant safety problems, the TWU would get the respect it deserves, right? LOL!
I actually did have a good driver interaction that day. One of the bus drivers thanked me for pointing out that his right headlight was out. Of course, the real question there is, what happened during that safety inspection that drivers get paid to do before they take out a vehicle?
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“Quit whining” is not really a meaningful response to a list of specific issues being commented on.
There is a broad perception that Muni is broken and, while I encounter many Muni drivers that act professionally (a majority, no doubt) there are enough bad apples that a frequent topic of conversation among commuters is the rude and lackuster behavior of Muni operators. If I worked for Muni I’d be concerned with why there is a broad perception such as that, whether I considered it a misconception or not.
Your responses, including “quit whining” don’t seem to give any recognition that there may be a problem at *any* level. That defensive refusal to acknowledge or discuss the issues raised could be somewhat discrediting to your efforts.
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David: The TWU recognizes that there is a problem with service. They’re just putting on a brave face. Why else would they advertise “AMPLE PARKING” at their events (including those where alcohol will be served)?
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If Muni were “broken” it would be impossible for Muni to transport the 700,000 riders who use it each day.
If a significant number of “bad apples” did actually exist within Muni driver ranks, it would be reflected in the MTA’s passenger complaint statistics.
Therefore, I repeat:
Muni carries sixty three million riders per quarter, (over 250,000,000 per year).
In the last quarter in which MTA passenger complaint statistics were reported there were “fewer than 800″ Muni riders that complained.
I went back and reread your original comment. You should quit whining, and you should quit being hostile toward lady bus drivers.
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So what?
The Munich S-Bahn carries 800,000 riders a day. That’s just the light rail. Munich is less dense than San Francisco and has about 1.3 million people (vs about 800,000 in SF). In fact, I’d say for a city as dense as San Francisco, that’s pretty low ridership.
As for the statistics, don’t forget that the MTA also claims 100% of the complaints have been resolved. Anyhow, if you look at the 2010 Fiscal Year Service Standards report[1] (pages 51 and 52) you’ll see that there were 682 complaints for unsafe driver behaviour, and 2,347 complaints for inattentive driver behaviour, 993 regarding belligerent drivers, and another four hundred odd ADA complaints (page 31). Add them up and you get over four thousand complaints for the second quarter of FY2010 alone. Of those, almost one third of all complaints cannot be acted on because of the MOU (page 54). Of those complaints that could be acted on, over half were not acted on for unknown reasons (likely the TWU protecting the bad drivers).
Of course there are a few things wrong with basing assumptions on these statistics. How many people call in for a given complaint? Let’s say that yet another L driver stops by Gene’s Liquor on 32nd (or 7-11 if it’s late). If nobody calls does that mean that this is acceptable behaviour? No. If one person calls it in, does this mean that only one person was wronged? No. If anything, you should be looking at complaints per run, not complaints per individual trip.
But, then again, the MTA stacks the cards in favor of the drivers. 311, which the drivers want to abolish, was the first agency to actually take MUNI complaints seriously. Back when the protocol was to call 6-SF-MUNI, your complaint would be binned without an acknowledgment. But the MTA is back to their old tricks again. 311 is now enforcing a separate queue for MUNI complaints, a queue that has a much longer wait time. How many people do you think don’t bother to file a complaint knowing how long it will take them? How many people have looked at the service standards report, seen that the union gets most of the complaints dismissed anyhow, and just not bothered?
1: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/rstd/documents/4-20-10Item12FY10Q2ServiceStandardsscorecard.pdf
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You are a sad, strange little man. Stay stuck, or get a life! I’m done with you and your kind!
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Ah, when you don’t have an argument it’s always easiest to fall back on personal attacks, no?
Well, for your information, straight from Transport for London:
Complaints Per quarter (calendar year 2009):
Jan – Mar 5060
Apr – Jun 5184
Jul – Sep 3994
Oct – Dec 4017
(the above is regarding London Underground service only)
Now, that’s interesting. Let’s say that the MTA is at about 4500 complaints per quarter (682 + 2347 + 993 + 400 = 4422) . Average it out and the London Underground sees roughly the same number of complaints. (5060+5184+3994+4017)/4 = 4563. Maybe that’s an unfair comparison between the Underground (which has far higher ridership) and the MTA. You could also whinge about including ADA complaints as the USA is one of the few places with any sort of focus on accessibility… which would leave you with roughly 4000 vs 4500, or roughly 12% more complaints and 400%+ of the ridership.
IMO that says something pretty significant that a system capable of handling roughly four times as many passengers as MUNI sees roughly the same number of complaints. My next task is to see if they’ve categorized the complaints, but that may take a while (this data was supposed to be available by the 3rd of July).
Of course, as per the British Freedom of Information Act, that data is copyright TfL.
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@Will J: Hostile towards lady bus drivers? Man, are you entirely out to lunch? (either way: desperately grasping for some Politically Correct straw to poke me with – can you please get real?).
If the driver was a man I would have said “the shockingly rude/lazy fat man driving”. If anything you should be calling me out on insensitivity to weight issues.
Anyway, you appear to insist that Muni is without flaw, which makes a “discussion” kind of impossible (i’m not Alex, who appears to be getting your goat…nonetheless your response to my first post was “take a laxative” -so, I’m not sure why I bothered to engage further at that point…)
That said, aside from calling out your clearly contrived outrage over (clearly non-existent) sexism in my post, I’m done here as well.
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One last thought (It made so much sense, I just can’t resist):
Looking at my complaint in my first post, about the driver who violated safety rules and put her passengers clearly in harms way (making we the passengers play frogger, mid-block, in traffic, in the dark, when there was nothing stopping her from pulling curbside at each stop). I realized that rather than acknowledge the issue, you criticize the complainer, then choose to whine (your word) about hostility toward the “lady” bus driver.
I again have to wonder: Is this cultural at Muni?
(by “this” I mean such a surprising diversion from the issue at hand, defending the driver (and even playing the Political Correctness card!) rather than addressing the very real safety issue & complaint.)
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I’ve lived in San Francisco for 18 years. I’ve been buying a Muni Fast Pass monthly for all of those years. If Muni buses were only three minutes late, no one would ever complain. It’s more like one whole bus is missing from the schedule, so it’s 15 or 20 minutes late — and already packed because of the missing bus. It’s also some of the rudest bus drivers I’ve ever dealt with — not all of them, not even most of them, but way too many of them nonetheless. You stand waiting for the 41 Union or the 1 California for 30 minutes and then, all of a sudden, three buses arrive in a group. I had a driver close the doors on me as I boarded one day — I yelled when I was stuck on each side by the doors and made a face and she had the gall to mimic my face. I’m sorry I didn’t pick the little creep up and toss her out the door. Of course I made a face! She should have seen it and apologized, closing the doors so they struck me like that! My favorite is when the very last morning bus on the 41-Union fails to arrive and I have to find a cab at Union and Gough. I don’t expect any Muni driver to tell the truth about the problems. The union contract is full of ridiculous provisions and privileges that none of us who work for a living and have to ride it are lucky enough to get.
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On April 7th, 2009, at around 3: 33 PM, at SFMTA’s monthly Board meeting and someone made a public comment, in which he opposed SF Muni giving SFPD $19 million for security they did not provide. The next day, he was told by the dispatcher on duty that he was being placed on non-driving status. He knew that this was management’s retaliation to his public comment, because Ihewas given no reason as to why I was pulled from driving.
On April 10th 2009, he came to work with his laptop and established a small corner office at the Potrero Division lunch room. While he was writing my letters, many operators came and asked him advice for rule violations they received from the management. Then he said \I helped some of them and I felt that it was almost impossible for one person to solve every problem. In addition, I received many phone calls on my cell phone from other operators in other divisions, asking for my help. Because of these calls.It is obvious to us that Muni Transit Assistance patrol officers are a great asset to Muni operators’ safety and riding public as well. They were observed in many occasions to break up a fight between youngsters at bus stops and around schools in the afternoons. I witnessed myself that on two occasions passengers on board the 22 line bus were ready to fight. The two Muni Transit Assistance Officers separated them apart and diffused the situation\.
He also said \When these officers are on board the bus or at bus stops, they seem to create security for operators and riding public with their presence. For example, when they are riding my bus with full capacity of the bus, it seems that the passengers were very are quiet. Also, I did not see any persons attempting to board the bus through the rear door. Not only they provide security for all of us, but also deter passengers from riding free. I don‘t think the riding public know the role they play in this transit organization. However, they are more visible than the San Francisco Police Officers. Yet, they are doing the job that SFPD should have being doing. In addition, I know that they are not making enough money and they need to be fully compensated for the keeping operators, school children and riding public safe. Moreover, I was told that they are only working Monday through Fridays. As most of us know criminals and people that create problems on buses, on the streets don’t take weekend off. In addition, we have all witnessed the current increased violence on Muni transit system against Asian Americans in San Francisco and elsewhere, which is even more evidence that these officers are needed aboard MUNI.
MTA should hire more of them. We need more of Muni Transit Assistance Patrol Officers on the weekend and during the nights. They are doing a wonderful job. They need to be recognized. On the other hand, MTA has given about $ 12 Million Dollars this year to SFPD for security services in Muni Transit System. Yet, the violence is increased in general. As an operator, I witnessed that the police officers are not present nor are they visible in the system. I think Muni Transit Assistance patrol Officers should coordinate with SFPD and should be given communication equipment and more responsibility in the transit system. We need more of them and they need to be paid more because they are keeping us safe. When Muni says promises to the riding safe reliable service. Well the safe part comes from Muni Transit Assistance Patrol Officers. Therefore, we need to encourage them to do more, but we have to recognize them by paying them more than what they are making know\.
1. Did union officials, in general, including the vice chairs, secretaries of each divisions receive lump sums of their union dues last year or the previous years?
2. Could you site a provision in a union local by law that will state that the union officials are exempt from paying their membership dues?
3. All division chairs, vice chairs, and secretaries are classified as 9163, transit operators. We all operators pay union dues bi-weekly. Tell me which union officials are those gets lump sums each year of their union contribution? And Why?
4.I have a few reliable, credible union officials sources that either now or previously were the beneficiaries of the above benefit, which is not available to the other transit operators or members of this union.. Can all my union dues for the last 11 years returned to me? If not, why not?
5. I would like you to disclose the audit of previous years including the firm, address and telephone number a contact person. I also would like a copy to be sent to me or given to the members. I would appreciate your prompt response. Thank You.
Thank You.
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